we have the hearing, preliminary hearing for james holmes out in aurora, colorado, and awful testimony coming out of that all week. if you are reporting this as well, that the nra has been invited to meet with the biden task force, so that joe biden and his group reaching out to try to at least touch base with, of course, the most vigorous and best organized opponents of any kind of gun lobby. >> it would be shock if anything they didn't. they're not going to have a chance if there isn't an effort to reach out the nra and see if there is any possibility of common ground, and if there's not, there's not. i'm struck by what could be different. during the whole assault weapons ban, yes, there is always in some of the things that victims -- that the victim families can get involved in a way that can move political debate, but it was still, i would argue, still sort of a political debate that wasn't personal. the newtown families, gabby giffords and mark kelly, folks in aurora, i -- you know, the power of these victims' families that could have on this political debate don't underestimate t